04
Dec
07

Son of Group Think

I don’t know why I do it. It’s like hearing Britany Spears news– you want to plug your ears and scream, but you don’t, and instead you’re glued to her latest insanity.

But Willy is back at it, over on his blog, claiming he’s been wronged by other Right Wing Hatemonger Authoritarians who are deleting his comments. He accused me of it once, but “took it back” when it was discovered his posts were landing in the spam filter (he didn’t change the title of his post, of course, just put in a small-font update saying the comment wasn’t deleted). [As an aside, the spam filter picks up posts with a lot of links and shuttles it over there as a precaution.]

He’s done this to other people where he trolls their posts for comments, and if he feels they aren’t fast enough in posting the comments, he’s being censored by the Right-Wing Authoritarian engine, and he feels much better about himself as he’s speaking truth to power.

It’s manufactured martyrdom. We’ve seen it with Cindy Sheehan. We’ve seen it with WTO protesters. We’ve seen it with military base protesters. Make someone “censor” you and it’s because you’re speaking truth to power.

Here’s his latest persecution by the Right-Wing:

Religious conservatives deleting blog comments again: Webutante and Pistol Pete

Just wanted to document the ever increasing number of conservative religious authoritarians that have deleted my comments, not because of any vulgarity or insults, but just because my posts contained legitimate information that challenged their beliefs. These are people who say they stand ‘for the truth.’ Instead, what they really stand for is a narrow view of the world that they guard from debate and discussion with abject denial.

They pulled a “Mark Rose” on me. Check out their blogs and tell them hello from William:

Webutante

Necessary Therapy

Also note, most college newspapers have unmoderated blogs and discussion. You won’t find much of that at religious colleges like Liberty or Bob Jones. They wouldn’t want their students to have too many inconvenient truths, now would they? Forget about critical thinking, submission to dogma is far more important!

What’s wrong here? Well, Willy never cites the posts where he’s being censored. I don’t think his comments are being lost (I remember seeing 4-5 of his posts in my spam filter during the ‘censorship’ claim). So I scanned recent comments and found a comment from December 3rd, the same time he was being ‘censored’, over on Pistol Pete’s blog. In addition, in other comments, Pistol Pete clearly states his policy of editing video links unless he’s seen their content (which is reasonable, as anyone could be posting child porn links on a blog comment. I’ve checked Willy’s comments here, and aside from being incredibly boorish liberal propaganda, they’re ok.)

As for Webutante, I gave a look, and didn’t see any comments from Willy, so it’s nigh impossible to determine where is post was and where it’s gone.

In the meantime, I want to tell you about my own censorship campaign. I posted to Daily Kos, Democratic Underground, Think Progress, Glenn Greenwald, Salon, and Wonkette, and all of my posts were deleted. It doesn’t matter what post I put there– they were deleted, I tell you! Those liberal authoritarians are afraid of my comments. Go ahead. Prove to me that my comments weren’t deleted there!

Wait, you can’t? You can’t prove a negative? That’s right. So it’s a convenient method to claim foul without any substantive proof. And also, you may want to ask why your posts are being deleted? Too many links intercepted Willy’s posts here. Perhaps they are being intercepted by other spam filters?

I think I know Willy well enough to say that if he says he’s posting at these websites, he’s posting. But it’s clear he’s quick to injure and cry authoritarianism. He’s also quick to move out of the realm of rational dialogue and make fun of people due to physical characteristics, something terribly intolerant of him. Which is interesting considering a banner on his blog states:

Liberal: …generous, abundant, lavish, broadminded, tolerant, enlightened, charitable, free

Tolerant indeed.

UPDATE:  Willy apologized for the baldness comment.  All the hair remaining on my head thanks you.


9 Responses to “Son of Group Think”


  1. 1 pistolpete
    December 4, 2007 at 10:54 am

    On behalf of our founder and principal blogger, Pistol Pete, we here at “Necessary Therapy” wish to thank you for mentioning us in this post. It was a pleasure to check out your site. We appreciate your fair, well reasoned analysis. May your blogging be blessed .

  2. December 4, 2007 at 5:55 pm

    The fact is, the most recent links that were deleted by Pistol were on the post about evolution. They were not video links – 1) One was a link to the American Museum of Natural History – Hall of Human Origins. and 2) a news story on the porn star who played Adam for the Creation Museum.

    Webutante has deleted my last three comments.

    I have never deleted any of their’s or yours Doc.

    Regarding ‘Group Think’ – the is NO greater example of ‘Group Think’ than religion. If you can’t appreciate the weight of this statement, perhaps if you consider the details of a religious belief different from your own, you might get what I am talking about.

    The religion of one presidential candidate and 14 million Americans subscribe to these “facts:” A man named Smith, who had been convicted of being a “disorderly person” and an “impostor” in a court in Bainbridge, New York; a man described as a ‘Glass Looker’ for using his peep stone to locate buried treasure; a man who met his wife on a treasue hunting expedition, a man who allegedly dug up gold plates that he would show to no one that he first heard in his bedroom late at night from an ange named Moroni. This man said he received a pair of large spectacles he called the “Urim and Thummim” or “Interpreters”, with lenses consisting of two seer stones to interpret the gold plates which was the source material for the Book of Mormon. Of course, there is no evidence of these plates, they were returned to the angel. This story forms the basis of the Mormon religion. Looking at this example of ‘group think’ … if 14 million Americans and a presidential candidate can believe this as fact, there is no limit to what religion and dogma can do to influence people no matter how absurd and ridculous the story may be.

    I am not the one you should be refering to as “Son of Group Think” … I think that title most assuredly belongs to those who subscribe to such myths and legends, and clearly, I am not one.

    Regarding my making fun of people due to physical characteristics, your right. It was wrong of me and I apologize to you. I was just trying to make a point by mimicing the tactics of another blogger. It is not something I normally due and I was trying to be humorous.

  3. December 4, 2007 at 6:58 pm

    man, du i knead a spelcheker or a preeveuw or wat? doc, wil tel u, pay no tension ta me, ah’m frum Tennusee

  4. 4 docattheautopsy
    December 5, 2007 at 10:18 am

    Regarding ‘Group Think’ – the is NO greater example of ‘Group Think’ than religion.

    I will agree and disagree with your statement, because it holds truth, but not all of the truth.

    Most “religious” who are out there nowadays are woefully ignorant of their religion. They ascribe to its general teachings, but have no meaningful grasp of what it’s about.

    Take, for example, “The DaVinci Code”. I’m sure you can recall the uproar over the book and movie and the reactions of many Catholic organizations, probably because of the popularity of the book. Sure, Opus Dei was totally mischaracterized in a work of fiction (as the author admitted), and the idea that Mary Magdalene and Jesus were married and had children is certainly controversial. But it’s a work of fiction. The “Left Behind” series, which I had the misfortune of reading, was also an attack on Catholics that was wildly popular. It didn’t receive as much attention, and it didn’t get as much group criticism from Catholics. (Although from a literary standpoint, the books after the first were pulp garbage, and the first book was mildly interesting at best.)

    But I bring up these examples to illustrate that the outrage and critics are often ignorant of their source materials. I didn’t read the DaVinci Code, but I did see the movie, and I was totally outraged! I can’t believe they though that hair looked good on Tom Hanks! But the plot & movie? Sure, it may be heretical, but it’s fantasy. It’s about as outrageous as “Battlefield Earth”. And if people had not set their hair on fire in outrage and approached it in a reasoned manner, there’d be no uproar.

    It’s a good example of group think. People listening to other people without forming their own opinions. Many treat religion that way as well. They let others tell them what Christ said without actually understanding what Christ said. Ignorance on these levels breeds a group think where a popular idea becomes mainstream due to a lack of critical evaluation on behalf of the public.

    As for your jibe at Mormonism, I don’t personally subscribe to it, but when I lived in Wyoming, I knew many different Mormons who were very cool people. They were fun to hang out with, study with, watch movies– everything except drink (although they were fabulous designated drivers!) They seem to have a very good family life, and they’re not out beheading people who call teddy bears special names. I think the South Park Mormonism episode hit the nail on the head– the religion is “out there” (not as much as Scientology, but it’s still in orbit), but if you can make a family unit that doesn’t infringe on others, and produces well-adjusted, accepting people, then more power to them.

    IMHO, if you’re doing good work and you believe in some kind of Higher Being, then it’s not up to me to judge you. But if you put your faith in man, then you’re going to end up disappointed.

    As for putting you in the category of Group Think, I have to wonder, especially given your posts about Bush lying over the NIE. I’ve seen it with many people– they’re so blindly enraged of Bush they’re willing to believe anything TP or Media Matter is publishing. Note that in all of those quotes, Bush was actively concerned about the Iranian nuclear program. I think we should all be as well. Whether Iran is bomb-capable in 2009 or 2015, they’re going to be bomb-capable at some point, and the NIE clearly states it.

    And thank you for the apology. I never hold anyone’s feet to the fire over spelling, either, as when the argument reaches that kind of minutiae, the topic has moved far away from anything resembling a meaningful airing of information.

  5. 5 William
    December 5, 2007 at 11:42 am

    I never said religious people were bad people. My mother is a deeply religious catholic and I stand by her in church and have often volunteered as a church musician during christmas, not because I believe christ as divine, but because I see the good and the love that religion can embrace.

    Regarding religion, I do tend to dwell on the dark side a bit because I find that religiousity is a growing threat in America because it bleeds over into politics, education and law in many ways. It has taken on a life of it’s own in that realm, one that is often quite divisive, authoritarian, and with much hypocrisy. Generally, I find much less objectional behavior with catholics than i do with protestant evangelicals.

    The fact is, my posts were deleted and not because I was vulgar and you are also right that I accused you wrongly of deleting my posts. I did not accuse these people wrongly. Pistol did delete a post and not just some links. Webutante does it all the time.

  6. 6 William
    December 5, 2007 at 1:27 pm

    BTW, I read Holy Blood Holy Grail 20 years ago, the documentary on which the Divinci Code was loosely based. It makes a compelling case and it is not fiction.

    Regarding Bush and the NIE, anyone should be able see the issue I’m getting at. Iran’s nuclear program aside, it is a commentary on the motives, ethics and competence of Bush/Cheney.

    Former Republican Congressman Joe Scarborough said it best:

    “We are left with only two options here. Either the President of the United States is lying to the American people about what happened during that meeting, or the President of the United States is stupid.”

  7. 7 docattheautopsy
    December 6, 2007 at 12:45 pm

    Regarding religion, I do tend to dwell on the dark side a bit because I find that religiousity is a growing threat in America because it bleeds over into politics, education and law in many ways. It has taken on a life of it’s own in that realm, one that is often quite divisive, authoritarian, and with much hypocrisy. Generally, I find much less objectional behavior with catholics than i do with protestant evangelicals.

    I tend to agree with you on this. JFK put it best when he said he’s a President who is Catholic, and not a Catholic President (back when there were those who were afraid JFK would take direction from the Pope).

    It’s hard to disassociate yourself from religion in a political context, and those with glaring contradictions (Nancy Pelosi, Rudy Guiliani) find themselves hammered on the subject of consistency. They also end up butting heads with the Church, especially in cases where the Church has pretty much unanimous conclusion (i.e. abortion).

    As for evangelicals, the similarities between the American new-world Protestants (such as Baptists congregations) and the early Catholic Church are striking. The early Church struggled to unite the various Churches through letters and eventual religious edicts, simply because the little differences were causing schisms that the Church couldn’t abide. We see similar fractiousness with the various Baptists communities. Some move to the hardcore fundamental aspect (and often lose sight of the New Testament as they focus on the OT). Others embrace more of the New Testament but have reinvented Christianity as a religion that’s exclusive of its Jewish heritage. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

    my posts were deleted

    Yes they were, but I was also critical of where your posts went. Webutante seems to be deleting your posts, but it seems that NT was just getting rid of a link-heavy post (and given recent posts of yours there), it’s not a pattern of deleting posts they disagree with.

    I’m concerned with Huckabee precisely because he’s running on a religious platform– and he’s getting direct support from that platform. People are voting for him because A) Mitt’s a Mormon B) Rudy’s a (bad) Catholic and C) McCain’s a Catholic, but he never says anything on that front. I’m more surprised at Fred!’s poor performance, given that his Southern sensibilities should endear him to the more evangelical congregations. Huckabee’s policies as governor of Arkansas were horrible, from a Republican standpoint, and he deserves extreme criticism for that.

    Regarding Bush and the NIE, anyone should be able see the issue I’m getting at. Iran’s nuclear program aside, it is a commentary on the motives, ethics and competence of Bush/Cheney.

    That’s the funny thing about politics. Something said about one subject could actually be relating to something else.

    The US is pissed that Iran is supplying weapons to the Iraqi insurgency. Calling for an embargo based on that isn’t going to drum up support. However, calling into question their nuclear motives could get an embargo, and on an easier path, so the Bush Administration touted Iran’s non-compliance and weapons desires to force concessions on their part on Iraq. (Note we’re calling for another summit with Iran over Iraq.) As AQI continues to disintegrate in Iraq, it would be a good time to get Iran to fall in line with region stability, and that pressure can be applied in a variety of different ways.

    Ahmadinejad just declared “victory” over the nuke issue, but they’re still coming to the table on discussions on Iraq. It shows that Iran was able to save some face over the nuke issue, but they’re still being pushed into easing up on Iraqi insurgence. Their nuclear program, however, is something that will need careful monitoring. (Not surprisingly the Israelis are not pleased with the NIE release, and they have intelligence which contradicts that data.)

  8. December 10, 2007 at 12:36 pm

    Sorry I missed this post until now.

    Actually, William is correct, I no longer publish his comments on my blog. It’s rare that such a thing happens, but it’s my First Amendment right and I made this decision for many, many reasons.

    best wishes……..

  9. 9 William
    December 11, 2007 at 12:59 am

    Thanks, webby. You’re showing your true authoritarian censorship colors. I know, it’s easier just to look the other way than be confronted with facts.


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My name is Doc. Welcome to my blog. If you're visiting from another blog, add me to your blogroll (and I'll happily reciprocate). I have a Ph.D. in Chemistry and live in Wisconsin. If you have any questions, feel free to email me. My email is docattheautopsy at gmail. (No linking to deflate the incredible spam monsters).

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